My fingers got so big during pregnancy my ring didn't fit. We actually had a waitress say something to my husband because he was wearing his ring and she thought he was cheating on his wife!

My mother was with my step dad for 17 years and they were never married. Things ended up not working out for them and they split had nothing to do with not being married or lack of commitment. They just fell out of love. My mother had been married once before she met my step dad but she had been young and silly and married the wrong person, when they got divorced she went into debt.. Afterwards she told herself she'd never get married again. I know a couple who have been together almost 30 years and they aren't married. They never could afford it, and are quite content in their love to not have to prove it to society by getting married. My boyfriend and I have been together for 5 years now and have a daughter and another on the way, id like to get married one day, but we have bigger priorities to spend our money on right now. Maybe one day we will, but either way it will never contest to the fact that we love each other and always have..

It doesn't matter how good I look or how much my husband loves me. He is a person who thinks cheating is wrong. End of story.

I think someone is lacking in morals if they cheat or think cheating is acceptable. It doesn't matter where their lack of morals stems from, but they must lack them if they can justify or excuse the action of cheating.

I guess I give men more credit than being uncontrollable animals that can't think about right and wrong when it comes to sex. I don't think they are helpless and vulnerable creatures that can't tell right from wrong by nature. That implies that cheating somehow isn't a choice and it most certainly is one.

I just like the idea of being someones "wife." Sure, a girl can wear an engagement ring on her left finger without being married, but how will other women know your man is taken when there is no ring on his hand either? Its a piece of paper right, so whats the big deal? The idea of being man & wife, with your children having the mans last name as well as you, shows that you are a family. You are all one. Thats how I look at it :) when I see a pregnant woman, I always look to see if she has a ring. I don't judge if she doesn't, but it's just a habit I guess.

In every instance I was responding to a specific statement and circumstance which is why I was standing by my comments. Out of context I can see how they would sound condescending and I apologize for that.

"A child rebelling" was in response to the comment that someone gets married just because it's what society expects or because the government says you should.

Saying you don't believe in it seems like a generic answer for not wanting to get married. So a"cop-out" for the real reason not a cop-out of getting married. I don't know if I'm explaining that right, but that's how I see it.

When I said "not everyone is cut out for the challenge" it was in response to the argument that marriage has no meaning because most end in divorce. Marriage is challenging and that's why the divorce rate is high. It had nothing to do with unmarried couples.

Yaya- I think you should've said that in your op! The fact that you find it condescending is important and puts a different spin on things.

That said; I pointed out statements I found condescending but you still want to stand by them. You won't change many minds by doing the same thing to others that bothers you. A little respect goes a long way and generally makes for a more productive and open minded conversation.

Alley, I agree. I apologize if any of my comments made it seem like unmarried couples are not committed to each other. That was never my intention with this post. I admire anyone who knows what they want and stands by it. My issue is with the phrase "I don't believe in marriage". To me, that is the ultimate in condescension. To say that it is meaningless, a crock, and unbelievable irks me. To say "I don't believe that marriage is for me" or "I believe that marriage isn't as important as it once was" doesn't offend me. But someone saying they don't believe in it just rubs me the wrong way and I felt the need to rant about it.

It isn't a just a piece of paper though. It doesn't matter that I don't believe in god, it still isn't a piece of paper. It doesn't negate the importance or seriousness of a commitment such as marriage. Your clarification doesn't make sense to me.

Also, I don't know why some people seem to think most men cheat. I didn't marry someone with a lack of morality. You don't need religion to know that cheating is unacceptable. If the commitment of marriage itself isn't going to prevent someone from cheating, religion isn't going to stop a cheater from cheating either.

Perhaps its not the outcome of marriage they don't believe in, maybe its the notion? For example one may not believe you have to be married to raise a family, while others believe you must be married first. Same with someone not believing that that piece of paper should signify their life with someone legally or otherwise. Yet some people believe in marriage for all of those reasons.

Maybe when people say they don't believe it's a matter of clarifying what it is they don't actually believe in, before implying they are wrong!?

My mom says that all the time. But it's just because she's unhappy.

Silly, I stand by all those comments. I was very specifically talking about people that use the phrase "I don't believe in marriage". That is obviously not you, so I don't know why you are taking it personally. I never generalized and said that my comments pertained to everyone. I do believe some people are rebelling, I believe some use it as an excuse, and I believe that vows have special meaning. I also believe that there are couples that can live happily together without the ceremony. I'm glad that you have a strong relationship and I have absolutely nothing against your choice to abstain from marriage.

Generally when you dont have faith, marriage only becomes a legal obligation. I mean if you love each other and together , you dont need that piece of paper. Thats how most people think.

My legal marriage wasnt much importance to me but my religious ceremony what really was important to both of us.

Also cheating if you believe in God , you know its a ultimate sin. But if ypu dont have faith only person you have to answer to is the person your with and most men cheat.

I mean thats my view on it , didnt mean to offend you

You said 'not everyone is cut out for the challenge', 'it's a cop out for the real reasons they don't want to get married' and 'it seems like a child rebelling against an adult'. These are condescending things to say.

I might be paraphrasing your quotes a bit so sorry of they're a bit off!

Silly, how am I putting anyone down? I was commenting on the divorce rate, not anything else. If I have said anything against unmarried couples, it wasn't intentional.

Ash- that last part rubbed me the wrong way. I do not believe in god and marriage has never been just a piece of paper to me. I don't know why, but that generalization bothered me. Normally I don't read much into what others say on here, it just sounded condescending I guess.

I said I don't believe in the importance of it. Obviously it exists! Lol!

And no Ash.... I'm with the right man :)

Edit to add: I don't need you to site any sources. Like I said for me it's just a different value system. I have no doubt that your stats are correct. When I say I don't believe in the importance I am speaking strictly for myself and my relationship. Like I said; no need to defend.

I apologize if my logic is confusing. I have explained it as best as I can. If marriage is not important to you that's fine. However, it is significant to a lot of people. Society as a whole places a very high value on it. And statistically, married couples are happier and more secure and stable. I can site my source if need be. To say that you don't believe in it seems like the thing that doesn't make sense. What's not to believe in?

They dont believe in it because they are with the wrong person to begin with.

Also they generally dont have faith and believe in God.so marriage just becomes piece of paper and meaningless if you dont believe becoming husband and wife in the eyes of God.

It's not clear to me why you have to put others down to defend the value of marriage. It looks like you and a couple pps are looking for something to be wrong with either the couple or the individual who choose not to be married.

It's just not for everyone. I don't think there's anything wrong with valuing marriage and I'm not attacking its importance in your life so theres not really anything to defend. Not everyone who chooses not to get married think its wrong for others to do. I personally think its great if that's what people want to do!

Silly, if those reasons don't apply to you then that's great. I never said that everyone should get married. Nor am I putting you down by defending the value of marriage. Of course it would be upsetting to anyone if their partner cheated. However, I cannot explain the significance of breaking vows if you do not believe that vows have any meaning. For me, it is the worst kind of betrayal.

I do.....why else would I do it 3 times :)

I can't believe this is even a debate.

I agree with martanelle and kvonq. I know there are people that don't think marriage is for them and that is fine. This posts reminds me of a distant relative who doesn't "believe" in having children. She told me its "gross and unatural to have something growing inside of you" lol Not sure how she thinks she got here!?

Your reasoning doesn't make sense op. Cheating and abuse is traumatic to anyone. Not just married people.

Also you said believing in someone means you have faith in them (or whatever similar thing you said). Why can't believing in marriage be the same thing?

Im married but I never expected to be. I always said I don't believe in marriage because I felt most people didn't take it seriously. don't take offense to it. and if you feel thats just an excuse for underlying issues than so be it. Who cares what others think? As long as you and your partner know your marriage means everything to you.

For many who aren't religious it is in fact simply a legal binding. I am engaged and do plan on getting married but I see it as more of a business agreement. I love my fiancé with all of my heart and want to share my life with him. However , I have stated to him there are preliminary musts before we " tie the knot". He must have a certain credit score, debt free , so on and so forth. May seem harsh and callous but perhaps I am just too much of a realist or have read one too many Suzee Orman books!

I simply don't believe in the importance of marriage. It's not part of my value system.

I wouldn't say 'it's just a piece of paper' or any other condescending thing people say about marriage. I also appreciate when people respect my choice to not marry. No it's not because I'm scared of life long commitment (I'm in a life long relationship now and have been for 14 years), I'm not trying to rebel against anything nor is my man unwilling to 'put a ring on it'. I find some of these comments pretty snooty. It's just a different value system. No more no less.

Edit to add: if my man cheated or abused me or would still be traumatizing!!

They end in divorce because they are not making a good choice, or they are quitting when it gets hard, or they did not take their vows seriously. 50% of couples pick a good partner, they fight harder when things get rough, and they realized that they were committing for life. If it was easy, everyone would do it and never get divorced.

It's traumatic when someone betrays you by cheating or becoming abusive in a marriage because those vows mean something. If it was just a piece of paper, then it wouldn't be a big deal when those things happen.

Sometimes it seems like a child rebelling from a parent. The government says marriage is good, so I'm not going to do it. The government makes it legal, but I assure you they have absolutely nothing to do with my marriage, nor what it means to me to be married. I think any kind of commitment ceremony or public declaration holds the same value as a legally binding certificate. In the end, it is the vows that count.

Idk about anyone else, but I didn't get married because society expected me to. I got married to demonstrate my love and commitment to my DH.

I'm not religious either. The ceremonies and rituals of a marriage are ancient and have not always been tied to a specific religion or government entity.

I don't find value in the idea that a legally binding document is the highest expression of love for another person.

I don't think it's a bad thing, just not the most important. I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole institution of marriage, especially after studying the history of it and how it became a legal commitment.

For anyone interested, I loved Elizabeth Gilbert's follow up to eat, pray, love on the subject. Blanking on the title of it though.

Believing in someone means having faith in their abilities. Not believing in marriage means what exactly? That marriage is a crock? Millions of married couples would beg to differ. It seems like it's just a generic cop-out phrase for the real reasons why someone doesn't want to be married.

I believe in marriage as an institution that is very important to some, I just don't understand WHY it's so important to some people. I guess I don't believe in the rationals behind marriage. Maybe it's because I'm not religious and don't do things for the sole reason of societies expectations of how to live my life.

so i guess we cant say "i believe in you" anymore when we express our faith in someone, because all of a sudden thats not what it means and the english language bends at your will

I just say," I don't believe marriage is for me." But I believe that it's real lol. Most of the people I know are married so it'a not a mythical thing lol.

News flash: peole have their own beliefs and opinions.

I understand what they are trying to say, it's just a ridiculous phrase. They really mean that they don't want to get married. Just own up to it and say you don't want to do it. It's hard to build a successful marriage. Not everyone is cut out for the challenge.

My best friend growing up is in a relationship with someone who doesn't "believe in marriage". He says that he doesn't want anything even akin to marriage. Yet, they share finances (from her job), share a car(that is hers on the title), rent a flat together (that she pays all the bills) and obviously have been shacking up together. It makes me so mad, because he just doesn't want to marry her. He just doesn't want to be legally bonded to her. But he's willing to do everything else that is in a marriage-except sign that "piece of paper".

My mum says, "why should he buy the milk when he gets the cow for free".

I don't care what people do but it bugs me when they say that marriage is too big of a commitment and yet they are willing to have a baby together. If there are no kids in a marriage, you can split up and never have to even see each other again. But when there is a child, you are bonded for life!! Not just for 18 years. Life!

I have a friend who doesn't believe in the ideals of marriage. His view is that statistically half of all marriages fail, and he believes being monogamous is unnatural.

Personally, im all for marriage. But hes interesting to talk to.

its not the same as believing in the tooth fairy or not :P

It's just stupid phrasing, if I'm understanding correctly. It's like when people say they don't believe in homosexuality. They mean they don't agree with it vs. it not existing, right? I don't know. It seems silly to say you don't believe in something that clearly exists so I just assume they mean agree with instead of believe in.

I get what you mean Op, but From what I have observed, ppl may express they don't believe in it because of what has been done to them in the past. Most would want to get married, but are afraid they will be one of the unsuccessful stories. Also, some may see marriage as a piece of paper which to them they don't have to have to validate or define the type of love they have for each other. I think the saying gets lost in translation more than anything.