Racial nickname
I sometimes call my lo monkey. To me he looks like a little monkey. My so says it's racist and offensive. What do you think?
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It's not that you brought up your friend, I understand the context. It's the details of your friendship and what you guys are gonna do later. Like, you could just say she is your best friend and we already assume that you 'wouldn't trade her'...it's odd that you even said that, or told us that you guys were going to watch a movie, as if that is relevant. People don't usually add a bunch of unnecessary details unless they are trying to prove something. Psych 101.
ETA honestly I didn't pick up on 'person of no color' because your writing isn't very clear & it's generally hard to follow...still unnecessary to use quotations in either scenario.
I did put " around person of no color....guess you only pick it up around the person of color. Thats typical when your TRYINN to pick out racist stuff ?Sounds like you are trying to prove something more than anyone. ??????????????????. And FYI I bring up my friend, because she is black, And I'm white. What sense would it make if I brought my white friend in on this??? None.
@tina it's not that it's hard to believe...anything is possible. I'm just sharing my experience. Often times people of color politely endure mildly racist s*** from their friends and don't say anything, even when it bothers them, because they risk being told they are too 'easily offended.'
I do find it odd that you keep bringing up your friend and feel need to share the detailed play by play of your life together...seems a little strange and makes me wonder what you're trying to prove. Hope the movie was good tho ✌?️
And person of color doesn't need to be in quotation marks. Just like you wouldn't put quotation marks around a person who is white.
My baby is half mexican and I call him my little monkey already. I don't think it's racist at all in any way. People take things the wrong way too often nowadays. There's way worse "racist" things you could call your baby. But he's your baby, and if you're not being malicious then it shouldn't be an issue. We joke and my family calls our son a beanerschnizle (mexican and german) or a McBeanie (irish and mexican). We don't mind at all.
Why? Is it that hard to believe that a "person of color" can take and make color jokes with a "person of no color" and not get offended? Would you take it better if I told you that she..the.."person of color" as you call her, started it? I actually never even knew what the word meant till months later. That's when I came back with the tootsie. And the names just stuck. Just like white people, not every black person is the same. Not every black person is easily offended. Now would I go and call another black person a name like that? Absolutely not. Would she call another white person a name like "crisco"...probably ?. Well I'm gonna go watch a movie with my favorite "person of color" now. ✌?️
My bff is black and I'm white. She calls me crisco and I call her tootsie. We always make color jokes to each other. Doesn't bother us and we don't care if it bothers anyone around us. No ones skin is the same color. I wouldn't trade her for another best friend for anything. I love my tootsie roll.
Who was it that called Obama a tar baby? Was it Trump? I don't think so. McCain? Does anyone remember?
At least now I understand why my mil was so surprised when she heard me call him monkey.
Thanks Avery. As a white person with white children, I do have the privilege of not having as much emotion attached to the conversation (even though it's something I care deeply about, it's not the same as experiencing it first-hand or having to consider the things you guys have to consider in parenting). But regardless, you have said really powerful and important things and I appreciate that you have chosen to be open in this space -- R&R is not the most 'woke' corner of the Internet and so talking about race can be frustrating, and I'm sure it's 100x more so for you.
And FFS I really hope that white people can learn how to stop centering themselves in these conversations, and instead try to learn & understand the experience of others. But it's an uphill battle because we are socialized to believe our opinion is the final word, including when it comes to what is racist and what isn't ?
Please, please, please. Stop saying "I call my white children "monkey" I'm not a racist." It is not Caucasians who have been portrayed over and over and over again throughout history (and even in the present day) as monkeys. It is not Caucasians who have routinely been described in animalistic ways to make them appear sub human. So, feel free to call your child monkey. I will do my best to remember that not everyone cringes when they hear that word. But, afford me (and the many other people who feel as I do) the same respect and be aware that not everyone feels the same way as you do. It's not being overly sensitive or easily offended, it's respect. Simple as that.
My children are biracial and when my oldest was very little my parents asked me and my OH if they could sometimes refer to him as a little monkey because that's what they would call my niece (fully white). They wanted to ask because they did not want to be offensive but I kind of felt like that made it a bit offensive in a way? I wanted to sink into the floor when they were asking that s*** lol. My OH said it was fine and wasn't bothered. But I don't call my kids that.
My family is from a very small white rural community where a lot of people are really ignorant about a lot of things. The first time my grandmother met my OH she made a comment that he spoke really well . . . . Wtf?! I just told her he was born in this country so of course he speaks well. Sighhhh, and my parents are just ignorant on a lot of stuff but they are not hateful people just not super informed. It's been years and they still can't get over how their hair "shrinks" after washing etc. like it's been long enough you don't have to comment on it every time.
Sorry went off on a tangent lmao.
Anyways it's your own child so you know that's not your intent at all and I don't see any issue.
DH is black and from Mississippi, Im extremely white (ginger) and from Alaska. Since being pregnant with our first he expressed his (very strong feelings) about clothing/words that have anything to do with monkeys. He's been called one, so for him the word is associated with negative feelings. I respect that. It may not be something everyone understands (clearly from reading the comments) but it's something he is against and would rather our children not be referred to as monkey. Especially since some of the clothes show a monkey hanging. A lot of people think it's crazy and they're "just clothes" or "just a name" but to the man I love and am spending the rest of my life with they remind him of things from his childhood and I respect his feelings. Just because YOU don't understand it, doesn't mean other people's feelings aren't justified. OP, especially him being from Louisiana him not wanting your LO to be called a monkey make sense. However, if you aren't together or under the same roof what you do at home and what he does don't have to be the same.
I think it depends on where your from and who you are. I'm in TN. Very prejudice area if someone called my mixed babies monkey ID be pissed. But if it was someone I knew and that they did not mean any harm than I wouldn't look into it. It depends on the situation but I can say it BC they are my kids and I'm not racist. But I wouldn't go around saying it especially in my area. It is good for other posters to not think of it as racist. I'm sure they wouldn't mean it that way but it's very different when you have been around horrible people who would mean it in a bad way even toward kids.
Lol my husband kids around with that too. I'm white, he's black. If the word "monkey" is ever used by me (and not in a racial way), he'll kiddingly give me a hard time. I teach and had an African American student/mom give me a baby gift just last week for my soon to be son. They gave me a little monkey snuggly along with some other stuff....mom obviously doesn't see an issue. ☺️
I dont like items with monkeys on it and dont buy it. Sure it might be cute cause its baby stuff its on but the word has historically negative connotations and in todays climate people are getting way too comfortable in showing racism. I will not do anything that makes them feel its ok. This is my opinion and if you want to call your child that then please continue to do so....but not my child...in any intent. And those of you with mixed race babies, your children could be subject to racism one day so you should be sensitive to those who find this offensive because it could be your child one day and how will you explain it or comfort your child if you are not aware yourself. Its a shame but racism still exist....sometimes blatant...sometimes not.
Well, I'm not going to wait for someone to confront me. And it has occurred to me that it might be offensive because it's not an uncommon thing & enough people of color have explained that it can bring up weird feelings. It's amazing how many people are like 'oh my gosh, I'd never even think about that!' Like did you ever look at anti-Black propaganda throughout history and even today? So for me, it's better to honor that and be conscious of it. But you do you, bew bew.
@accident yes, I'm aware of how nasty people used the word. My whole point is that when it is used to describe a child, I highly doubt it is meant negatively. I have several friends of mine that have black children and I have played with them and called them a little monkey before, and was never told that my nickname was insulting in any way. Obviously, if one of my friends pulled me aside and explained to me that they don't like it, I wouldn't use it. It never occurred to me that anybody would be offended by using the term monkey to describe a child, because I never used it negatively. I think, for it to be racist, the speaker has to want it to be racist. Which would never be my intention. I would never intentionally put somebody down due to their race.
I actually asked my husband about this before our son was born since I knew the history of the word and was aware that a lot of people refer to little ones as monkeys. He said unless someone said our son looked like a monkey, it would be fine. I decided to stay away from it altogether.
Avery, I don't understand why you assume I haven't experienced racism. That's 100% a completely false assumption. I was a "Jew" in my primarily Hispanic high school. I would be walking down the hall and people would throw change on the floor in front of me to see if I'd dive for it because "my kind is so cheap." I've had more than my fair share, I just don't let it bother me in my every day life.
I'm not focused on other people calling me racist. Whether or not someone thinks I am doesn't bother me. I know I'm not, they just don't get to decide if what I say is racist or not, when it's an innocent term of endearment.
"That child is a monkey." Is nothing compared to "That child is an N-word." One is quite obviously racist. Comparing any child to a monkey, no matter the race is innocent and in no way a negative implication towards the child, unless that person is a nasty individual. And I am very positive a parent will know if someone is being nasty about it.
And before I'm accused of turning a blind eye to racism: It's exists. It's real, and it's despicable. And EVERY race is affected by it. Again, racism is charged by stupid people doing/saying stupid things. I believe that I can be better than racism, so I don't allow it to affect me in my daily life.
The term, "little monkey", I think just refers to a silly little child or a wild child. I find the terms, "Mulatto" or "Oreo" racist. My children are also mixed race & I'd sometimes refer to them as my little hybrids & my youngest as, "White Boy" bc he's the lightest one, with light eyes & hair. Not once did it ever cross my mind that it's racist. It's just a term of endearment. In your case, OP, if your SO truly finds it offensive, then out of respect, I'd find a different nickname.
We do have control over whether or not we simply recognize that the word has a history mired in racism and subjugation and continues to be used in that way today. If we believe that words matter and have power, then we would know that this word might not feel the same way to someone else as it does to you. If you use it in a way that isn't racist, that's fine - I have called my own white son a monkey but I have to acknowledge that there isn't really any baggage attached to that. I also recognize that it is much more complex and loaded for people who have been targets of actual racism and being perceived/treated as subhuman (not something most white people can ever truly understand - hell, most won't even admit it's real and what I've noticed is that we will spend way more energy trying to explain how not racist we are than actually acknowledging and speaking out against the very real racism that's going on all around us).
We can agree to disagree, because nobody will tell me whether I was racist or not, because only one person truly knows what I mean by something I say, and that's me. Someone else cannot tell me that I was being racist when I know I wasn't. Calling a child a monkey, regardless of race is NOT racist when it is meant as a term of endearment. My whole family uses it, for any child that happens to be a handful. I guess I'm just not as socially aware, or maybe I just don't think about getting offended about things because it doesn't offend me. I just don't see the point in getting upset over things that I have no control over. If OP likes to call her LO a monkey, then more power to her.
I call DD monkey(white), I mean it playfully like she's being goofy and monkeying around. SIL'S ex calls all kids monkey regardless of race. He's black. I guess it's a personal preference of what is and isn't acceptable. I'd also like to add here(louisiana) interracial relationships are pretty common. Black/white, Mexican/white, Asian/white, Asian/black it's not unheard of. Both SO and I have mixed family members. Unless he is from a predominantly white town I'd say don't worry. You may occasionally run into an elderly person who hasn't gotten with the times, or a younger person who was raised unaccepting. Most "white" people here are Cajun french, I'd say about half if not more originated from France and were also slaves in slave time. So a lot are really loving regardless of race.
I do understand the word can have negative connotations. I feel that it depends on the context and the way the word was used. Still, I don't go out of my way to try to piss him off so I'll just gave to make sure I don't say it. It was interesting reading everyone's perspective on this.
It is not 'silly' to not like a word/nickname because of the way it's been used. Words are profound and can scar emotionally. I can 100% understand why someone would be apprehensive about a word or why it might bring about negative connotations. Kudos to you that you don't let words affect you.
And yes, you may eat crackers after being called one but similarly when I go to the zoo I will not bypass the monkeys. However, if someone said my kid reminded them of a monkey it wouldn't sit right with me. Yes they most likely meant it as a harmless joke but from the way in which that word has been used about myself and my race, I don't perceive it as harmless.
No, people do not need to tiptoe around me and yes, people are free to say what they want to. However, be prepared for someone to find it offensive. And for good reason, not just to pull the race card.
My children are mixed and my husband and I decided early on that we wouldn't use "monkey" as a nickname or term of endearment, not because we think "my little chunky monkey" is racist when cooed at a child, but because the history of the word is negative and offensive. There are plenty of other cute names and terms that can be used without using a potentially offensive name, even if the offense is unintentional.
The point is, anybody calling a child a monkey, more than likely isn't racist. I've called lots of squirming children getting into everything monkeys, of many races, including black children, and I never viewed/intended it as racist. And nobody can tell me based on other people's actions that I was racist for saying it, when it was simply a display of affection. Anybody that use monkey to describe an infant racially is dead wrong, but that is not how alot of people are. It's like me getting offended over the word cracker, and never eating saltines because three black children I don't even remember nicknamed me that in middle school. I've been told way too many times that I'm a cracker, but I don't hate the word. I just think it's silly to allow other people to affect your life so much that you don't like/use a nickname. People are stupid. Bottom line. Don't let somebody's stupidity affect you that much.
It's all based on personal experience. Recently my in laws took my daughter to a carnival and she got to sit on a camel, I laughed and showed my husband the pic they sent me. He immediately told me not to post the pic online. My husband is middle eastern, I am not. The pic was innocent and cute to me but I have never been called racial names to do with camels. I didn't post the pic.
@mhbbb2 it's ok honey. Sometimes we don't know everything and that is ok. I'm sure you meant no harm. If we knew everything then my god the world would be in grave danger. My husband bought my godson this cute monkey outfit and he said it looked just like him. I just sat there like ?? when his mom came. She said it was cute and that was all. Some people some things bother and some people it don't. I can't say if it bothers me or not I guess it depends on the situation. Don't fret over it. I'm quite sure you're an awesome mommy who made his nickname out of pure love. *gives big fuzzy cyber hug*
I had no idea that 'monkey' was used as a negative name for black people :/ If a stranger came up to me and said my kids were like little monkey's, I probably laugh and agree. I hope I've never said anything offensive to someone because I didn't know it was offensive! I wish things like that just didn't exist.
My kids are also biracial (half white half Jamaican) and my DH told me pretty early on he didn't want them wearing clothes with monkeys on it or being referred to (even affectionately) as monkeys. So I don't. There's a million other things to call them or have them wear and obviously he has history with that comparison so I leave it alone. I don't think it's racist but it's sons thing that bothers my DH so I leave it alone.
Also I would never say anything racist about my son or anyone else. I am a black woman. It bothers me that a nickname that I thought was cute because of how my lo looks and acts is perceived as racism.
I didn't say he was wrong for feeling that way. I just asked opinions. I know all people are different and that's why I wanted to ask in a place where there would be a wide range of perspectives.
I think it COULD be racist. IF they meant it that way.... I guess you just need to ask yourself, if they were trying to insult? Or if they were using it as a cute, term of endearment? But I wouldn't look for problems if they're not there. I call my nephew "monkey". It has 0 to do with the way he looks, or even a monkey in general. It's just a cute word I use with him, because I love him.
In this world some words will carry negative connotations no matter what. It's like me calling my son something that may mean nothing to me but would to somebody else. You just have to know that words come with history and I'm sure you meant no harm but everybody don't think line you or can ignore the history or origin of a word. You have to respect his view too. He obviously feels passionate about that. Would you be ok if other people called your child monkey? I've heard people call their kids monkey and no I didn't freak out that's their preference. Calling a Caucasian child monkey and calling an African American child monkey could carry different emotions. I'm not picking sides just offering some perspective is all. I'm not one to pull the "race" card I just respond to disrespect on a day to day basis. Hope you've gathered many perspectives to see why SO would be bothered.
Yes, white people call their white babies monkeys because they climb, but that in no way negates that monkey 'jokes' have been used to ridicule and dehumanize black people for centuries. It's still happening today. So it's actually a very loaded word and it makes sense to be very careful when using it on a child who might hear it in a different (and not so innocent) context from someone other than mom & dad.
I call my son an orangutan. He has red hair and crawls like one (with one of his legs tucked in and uses his hands to crawl). When we go to the zoo we even tell him were heading to see your family! (As a joke, obviously.) No one ever thinks it's offensive or racist.
I don't think it's racist at all. he's your son, you can call him whatever nickname you'd like.
I call my son monkey since he is going to be born this year he is year of the monkey, like me! But we are Asian. I don't see anything wrong with it if someone African America were to call their child monkey!!! So whoever gets butthurt, shame on them for putting those two together as a comparison...
I don't think if anyone is calling a baby or a child monkey, they aren't doing it to be racist, and I think that your LO's father is really reaching for it to be offensive.
About half the population believes we were derived from monkeys. I don't see how people have managed to twist an animal name into an insult. People are just ridiculous. The fact that people took a simple animal name and made it into a bad name to call people, just makes me sad. What's funnier than everything, though, is that those monkeys they're comparing people to, are probably more intelligent than they are.
I kind of think that's crazy. I call my daughter a monkey all the time. She loves the monkey bars and always has blisters because she can't stay off of them. My mom also called me a monkey because I was the same way as a child. Recently I've began calling my boys monkeys as well because they're always climbing.
My mom and hubby feel the same way when it comes to ds! He doesn't look like a monkey but his cute inquisitive nature reminds me of Curious George (so much that I cried watching a curious George movie recently ?). They get mad when I buy him clothes with baby monkeys on them! I understand it's historically offensive but OBVIOUSLY as moms who love their children, that's not our intent. I know VERY well that racism still exists lol, but sometimes we need to get passed some of this old deep rooted racial crap. This is one of those times.
I don't think I'd be offended if someone else said it either. He's from Louisiana and he always says he and I would be discriminated against. He's just pissing me off. I feel like he holds on to that stuff.
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I'm gonna be the bigger person and say I'm sorry before feelings get hurt over anything I've said. I come from a town of literally maybe 10 white people, which are mostly my family . And 100's of black people. Here im the minority. But to me it's my normal. But what's not my normal is calling black people "people of color". I'd probably feel very weird if I walked into the store and someone said "hey there's the person of no color". But I do get called "the white girl". And at work that's honestly how they point me out most times cause it's easier. So again. I am sorry for any confusion there. I guess it all comes down to what we are all use to. And obviously that's not all the same and never will be. The girls I work with are always making comments like "must be a white girl thing". I know they aren't racist. And when I make the comments back, they know I'm not. Different worlds I guess. I honestly think it is all depends on where your from and how you were raised.