@riasm85 yes! They would have been untruthful, with the intention to deceive, but they end up changing their heart, unknowingly too, because of the actions; sometimes you have to just physically start doing something and your heart will follow. This person didn't have a good heart to begin with, but their heart changed with time. Now if they're always doing good, even though they have bad intentions, I can't be mad. And as I've said before, sometimes it's hard to determine if someone's heart is good, just because they are doing good doesn't mean their heart is good, it can just mean they've never had the chance to do bad.

Here is an example (good action bad intentions), a mother is abusive to her children, her neighbors don't like her, so they call CPS on her. The reason they called CPS is because they don't like the woman, not because they want to save the children, would it matter to the children being abused the reason they're being saved, or, would it matter to the children that they are being saved? I call this gray area, lol.

Another example (good person gone bad), an individual is raised by parents who instill good morals in them. The individual is told what to do, and eventually just start doing the things they've always been told to do on their own, they've learned what is expected of them, and isn't allowed to make mistakes. This individual volunteers to feed the homeless, always behaves, gets great grades etc. Individual moves away for college, realizes they can make they're own choices, no one is telling them what to do... now this person who's different their whole life doing good, is doing a whole lot of bad, cutting class, doing drugs, drops out of school, stealing... was this person's heart ever good? 🤔 or did their heart become bad when given the choice?

I deal in consistencies, that's how I judge (yes I judge, lol), based on actions, I can't physically measure the "goodness" of a person's heart, so if a person is "good," but is always doing bad, I'll keep my distance, but if they change, I won't hold them to old actions, but.... I'll still remember they most def have the capacity to behave in a manner I don't like... gray area.

I don't think anyone is inherently good or bad, we just look at their actions over time and decide if we can allow them in our lives, that's the only tool we have for measuring. You can start with the mind and the heart follows, or start with the heart and the mind follows.

@thatregalmujer see what you call a gray area..is the point I've been making. Right and wrong are completely opposites so no matter how you try to intertwine them one doesn't justify the other..just like two wrongs don't make a right. Again what is meant to be will be. The person not liking the woman in the first place to even call cps was meant to be. The woman wasn't liked for whatever reason. Could've been they saw something wrong with her that didn't seem right in general..mean, rude, disrespectful, bad neighbor, bad spirit etc and for whatever reason she was called on but at the end of the day there was truth behind the woman not being liked. So it actually was ALL for the good, no bad in the situation at all. She did end up receiving her just reward for her actions. Truthfully all of this obviously goes back to morals, it depending on the person plus characteristics and the understanding they were taught or better yet simply may not even have..so I'm just going to say thank you and agree to disagree with you on this🙏❤

@riasm85 oh, ok. I don't really follow the "everything happens for a reason" mindset, I think random things happen, and is sometimes serendipitous. Things happen randomly, for no reason at all but they create opportunities, and you learn from them, sometimes you'll benefit, sometimes you won't. The good thing done for the wrong reason, is still the good thing. The wrong thing done for the right reasons, still the wrong thing. But we are judged for the reasons we choose to do the things we do.

I'm not too concerned about the state of a person's heart when they make their decisions, I'm more concerned about the decisions they're making. I'm able to evaluate their decisions on a case by case basis, not lump them all together and have expectations based on what they've done. People do things as it benefits them.

It's so many gray area, so we won't always agree, lol. You are correct! Right is right, no matter who's doing it, wrong is wrong no matter who's doing it, no matter what's in their hearts. So personally, I think it's almost impossible to label someone as good or bad. It would be a debate to no end, lol, honestly speaking. I really appreciate your views on it though ❤

👏🏿👏🏿 so do I!

I have many morals but not religious at all.

Wouldn't it be nice though? Lol

I always thought of it as religions are structured around morals

@thatregalmujer I can respect that opinion but I see it from the opposite viewpoint. I also said many, not all, have roots in religion. It's not a question that has a difinitive answer. Turn the wording around and ask,"Can one be moral without religion?", and the answers you get may differ but the question remains the same. Ask this question of a deep thinking philosopher and the answer may yet astound you/us.

@xryztalroze I'd love to ask it of a deep thinking philosopher, everyone over asked so far said this statement is false 😔 so I don't have anyone contradicting my view.