hmm..
if a woman gets pregnant, but doesn't want the baby, she can abort and some support that decision..
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In no way am I against adoption, in fact my husband and I would love to adopt. Katy brought it up so I responded. Are mothers who never try or never want to parent selfish to me? Yes!
Personally I have seen many babies put up for adoption out of pure selfishness. (I was working at a crisis pregnancy center) Mothers simply not wanting to give up their drugs! Or the ever popular "I want what's best for the baby, I would never make a good parent. My life is more important to me. But you guys can help me get pay while I'm pregnant right?"
? So yes, I do think a mother being so selfish as to not even try to get her life together to be mom is very sad. I know not all cases are like that, but there is no need to glamorize it and make it seem like every birth mother is a victim. That just isn't true or reality.
Maybe I'm also opinionated on the subject because of what I've seen.
On one hand I'm incredibly thankful there are little ones given the chance to have a loving happy family. On the other hand, we have an incredibly selfish individual who (in many cases) never even made the effort. That 100% could have been amazing mothers, but, they didn't want to...Sure, I guess from one angle it's part selfless to give up a baby, but that isn't the whole picture.
I only skimmed the comments so I may have missed it.... but did anyone say they were against adoption? I thought this post was merely on a woman choosing to abort and a man opting out of being a parent due to selfish reasons.
Going through an entire pregnancy knowing you won't keep the baby, but instead give him/her the opportunity to have a prosperous life is totally different. Probably the most selfless thing a woman could do.
While I wouldn't put my children up for adoption myself, I think many of you who are against it should be more realistic. I'd rather have an infertile couples dreams come true by adopting a child than to have unfit parents raise a child they didn't want. Children are our future and the way they are raised is very important. I for one, don't want someone to raise a child poorly just because they gave birth and were then expected to take responsibility. There are parents who do drugs, don't have patience, aren't capable of caring for themselves, alcoholics, workaholics, sociopaths, and even people with mental or physical disabilities. These people may not be cut out to raise a decent member of society. But you're telling me that you'd rather they raise the kid anyway and leave a perfectly happy and stable couple childless because no one should put their child up for adoption? That's so wrong.
i didn't know this has been posted before and i'm not defending deadbeats ?
just genuinely curious what everyone's thoughts on it were and i'm interested in all of your answers
I don't personally believe in abortion, but I won't tell a woman she can't have one. But, I would never have 1. I believe that once I see that positive test, I'm carrying another life inside me that is completely innocent, and dependent on me for survival. How could I abort? Also, if a man truly doesn't want kids, he can take steps to make sure he doesn't get a woman pregnant. Like a vasectomy. If he doesn't want to do that, then maybe don't sleep with every woman he comes upon. He shouldn't just rely on her getting an abortion.
There are many ways to raise a child in today's world and they don't all fit in the traditional "mom and dad" role. Life can be messy, but in that mess, it can be beautiful.
I have friends that are single that adopted kids. They chose the route of a single parent and there isn't a secondary parental role model. I have friends that are gay/lesbian and adopt babies so there isn't a traditional man/woman role model necessarily. I have single dads in my life where the moms walked away, and single moms where the fathers did. I have friends that are both still together but toxic for each other, ones that coparent like bosses and ones that are blessed with a happy and healthy marriage. I have friends that have had abortions, given babies up for adoption, or chosen to walk away and gave up their rights. Parenting doesn't fit into a box. I don't enjoy or support every choice people make, but I respect their rights to make their own life choices.
I am not a huge fan of abortion in most cases, but I respect the choice is not mine to make. I also respect that it isn't a decision that was made lightly.
My eldest had a father that decided he wasn't ready. He walked away. I tried to change his mind, but ultimately he didn't want to be a dad or family man. He wanted to be a bachelor, a marine and not have to worry about a family. I let him walk away. It is what he wanted.
I didn't want an abortion. I wanted my son and I knew while not my "ideal" situation, sometimes life throws us curveballs. I worked my ass off as a single mom so he wouldn't be without. He had positive male role models in his life still, and I began dating my husband while he was very young. He is now 11 and his bio father signed his rights away, and a petition for my husband to adopt my son since that's the father he knew. Takes more than sex to be a father in my opinion.
While I don't agree with my ex fiancé with his choices and sudden change of mind and heart, I respected it and didn't force him. My son is happy, healthy and knows about everything. He doesn't feel like he's missed out and he isn't interested in meeting his bio dad, he considers my husband his dad.
My ex? Well he's been serving our country and/or fighting in the war for most of that 11 years. He has been on several high risk missions. He is living his dreams and is trying to do his part of humanity. It is his life and he's fighting for the freedom of our country, that's his legacy. I on the other hand, went on to have four more sons and am living the lifestyle I wanted. I am raising good little humans, and that's the legacy I wanted to leave behind.
Not much that is worth anything fits in a neat box 100%. I am sure some people don't agree with his decision, and I am sure some don't agree with my decision to let him walk away. However, they were our choices to make and I am satisfied with how those choices played out for us all. That's what matters.
It seems we have opposing convictions on the subject. I view abortion as directly avoiding responsibility, in an incredibly selfish way. Getting pregnant isn't like someone just dropped a baby at your door, or in your body and you had no part in it. It isn't like suddenly coming down with a cold...Having unprotected sex is a choice...
Also, if the individual was truly responsible in the first place, they wouldn't have become pregnant unintentionally. (Rape, and genuinely "failed" contraception aside) There is no dancing around the subject or pretty way of painting it.
As far as terminating rights, I assume you are referring to adoption. Yes! That also is avoiding responsibility, and selfish on the part of the parent, who didn't want to parent or change their lifestyle. I'm not saying many children aren't better off with a new family, even if that is the case, that doesn't change the selfish action of the birth parent. Doesn't matter if "life isn't fair" or the timing wasn't perfect, choices we make have direct consequences and that doesn't justify irresponsibility or selfishness.
My opinion is that no matter what you choose to do, someone is always going to have a negative opinion about it.
I had more negative opinions about KEEPING my first child against everyone's wishes, including the grandparents who love her ever so much.
I think what needs to be said here is that one option includes a life, and one doesn't. When you have an abortion, you don't have to be a parent anymore. But neither does the father. And usually when a person decides to have an abortion because they aren't ready for a child, it's a mutual decision by both parties involved.
Whereas birthing a child, and taking care of one is a much more difficult and long road. A child is innocent, and shouldn't be forced to go through the hardship of living without either parent.
I think it's better to look at it this way, either parent CAN decide to not parent anymore before or after birth. A mother can ALSO just walk away from her child and sign her rights away. As can the father. They can also both stay. But no matter what, that child should be taken care of to the best of both parent's abilities.
@osie and @brittany said the two things I would have said here if I hadn't already commented on a similar post with those things just a few weeks ago.
Abortions don't exist because women get to decide if a baby lives or dies. I feel like most people think that's what abortion is all about. Abortions exist because pregnancy significantly changes a woman physically, mentally, and emotionally from the moment of conception until birth and then for weeks after, sometimes months, sometimes forever. I am not a proponent of abortion, but I understand why it exists.
And yes, men do have a choice. They get to choose to have protected or unprotected sex. If they really can't handle a child, stick to oral. How can anyone think that's unfair?
This conversation always baffles me. Not much in life surprises me, but women defending deadbeats gets me every time.
To be honest, she is the one that has to actually live the scenario not him. He did the deed knowing she could get pregnant and at the end of the day, the baby isnt inside of him.
This isnt a double standard because having an abortion can really mess a woman up. It may be "their" baby but its her body.
He should get the snip if he doesn't want kids. Simple.
Welp. That's because when a woman gets an abortion no child is brought into the world. When a father walks out on his kid, that kid will deal with it forever. If a man doesn't want children he needs to be responsible or stick to oral ?, that's where he gets to chose. Just because he doesn't get to chose whether or not to parent AFTER the case, doesn't mean he doesn't get a choice. His choice just "cums" before the woman's choice. It's bull s*** to say men (or woman for that matter) don't get to chose, we all get a choice, just at different times.
No men should not just be able to "walk away " consequence free if they didn't want a baby. What some of you fail to realize is child support laws weren't invented to be fair for the parents, they were put in place ONLY for the benefit of a child and to lessen the burden if forcing tax payers to fund the child.
If you're a man and you accidentally get someone pregnant tough cookies. And no, men shouldn't have a say with regards to abortion either because it's not their body.
Too bad. Abortion exists because pregnancy is a more of a hardship for women than just 9 months of carrying a baby. And men have no comparable consequences until after the baby is born. Women can die in child birth, lose promotions, get fired, spend time and resources fighting said work related hardships and can still lose, no real maternity leave, medical bills ect... men deal with none of this. Which is why they dont get an opinion. It sucks but life isnt fair. No one should be forced to carry a baby that they dont want to, and shaming ppl for having sex or misusing contraceptives is not an answer. Nor is saying, thats what you deserve for your behavior, children are not punishment. I shame men that pressure women who want to keep their kid.
I don't agree with abortion, and I don't agree with a man leaving his child because he didn't want it. It seems like everyone forgets about the child in these situations, and how they would feel about all of this. You had sex, you're Both responsible for caring for that child. I don't think it's fair for either parent to get an "out".
I personally think if you both make the choice to have sex knowing what your outcome can be then you are both responsible for it. As far as abortion-If a woman wants it then that's her decision. But if she chooses to keep the child then both are responsible for the child's care. The problem with society is people are let off from taking responsibility simply because they don't want it, want to deal with it, or it was a mistaaaake. Well tough. Every choice you make in life has a consequence. Good or bad. As you age you learn that a choice you made in your 20s can affect your 30s or even the rest of your life and so on. And I'm not talking about just having a baby either. I'm talking school choices, career choices, choosing a mate, retirement choices, etc. There's several times in life when you may only get one choice and sometimes you just don't get a redo because you facked up. I wish that's how it worked but sometimes it just doesn't. ??♀️
Yeah, men should be able to abort babies too, and women should be able to drink when they're pregnant. Or, women shouldn't be able to abort babies and when a man gets a woman pregnant, he should have to give up drinking, smoking, medications that he depends on, cold cuts, sushi, lifting heavy objects, and risky hobbies like mountain biking or hiking.
Equality! ✊️
Life doesn't work that way.
Life isn't fair and never will be. If a man doesn't want children then he needs to take steps to stop that from happening. Once he gets a women pregnant, her body her choice. If men were able to just walk away without any consequences then he's just going to go around getting women pregnant left and right because hey if she gets pregnant, not my problem..
I agree Lilith, but once a woman is pregnant, it isn't just her body. Or else the woman wouldn't need to be getting an abortion, that isn't a matter of opinion, it's a fact. ??♀️
So when people get all up in arms about "oh it's her body!" Regardless of how difficult pregnancy is, we are biologically discussing two humans, not one. Not going to go into debating anything, but the facts don't change.....
Well, I'm sorry. But a man is not going to tell me I have to carry a baby in my body for nine months if I don't want it. Granted, I will never be in that situation. But pregnancy is hard and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Even those of us that did want it, it's freaking hard. It's my body. Period. If the dad doesn't want anything to do with the kid, cool. Sign his rights away and he won't have to pay child support. But a man will never tell me what I can do with my body. Ever.
It's not fair. Men should have the same time frame to walk away consequence free. It isn't fair that if he doesn't want the child he still gets saddled with 18 years of child support but if he does want the baby and she doesn't she can abort and not give a rats ass what he wants. If the law in your state is you can abort up to 20 weeks, I believe the man should have until 20 weeks to sign his rights away free and clear.
That's exactly why when my ex walked away, I let him. I've never said a bad word about him. I knew he didn't want children at that moment. We had discussed it before. I ended up pregnant and he wanted me to abort. Knowing how he didn't want children, I chose to keep her. He's never met her, or asked about her. And I don't hold it against him. Yes it makes me sad, but I made a decision knowing it went against his. I made a choice and so did he.
I don't think it fair but as pp stated a woman does have to carry the baby for 9 months and push it out her vagina.. there are also cases where some woman have to have csection and the healing from that is so hard. A man doesn't have to deal with the sickness the pains or be uncomfortable. He don't have to worry about what the baby is actually doing to his body. He don't have to push baby out of his penis either. He don't have to worry about recovery or anything like that.
It depends on the situation. I'm neither for or against abortion. The main difference is that the man doesn't have go through 9 months of pregnancy and push a baby out his vagina. And if a woman is considering abortion I think is safe to say she already knows what type of father the baby's dad will be and takes that into consideration.
I think the key word is "some." Some people support abortions, some people support the father not wanting the responsibility, some people don't support either situations. No all mothers having abortions get support and not all fathers not wanting their child get shamed.
Eta: but I do understand what you're saying, I guess it's a double standard that has been engrained into us.
Like others have said: life isn't fair. If you have sex, you know even with protection, a child can be created.
Woman who used abortion as a birth control disgust me and I think they should penalized Everytime they use it for such reason (and i don't care if someone thinks I'm wrong for that. A woman knows the consequences of getting pregnant and also knows what has to be given up). And in that moment your body is no longer just yours. Medical is totally different.
Men who use the "I don't want kids" as an excuse also disgust me. Because they can get more woman pregnant in one month using that lame brain excuse. And if the woman decides to keep the baby, then she is now doing her part. I understand it seems wrong that men get shamed but why would any think it's okay for a man to walk away leaving the CHILD to suffer just because they didn't want children. That's sick thinking!! Plus you have a whole 9 months to sign rights over so....
My husband and I were not wanting to bring a child into the world and no we weren't doing anything to prevent which we knew our chances would've be higher and guess what we stepped up to our responsibility. Now we wouldn't change having him for anything. And if my husband would've decided to walk away fine. Rights would've been given to me fully (also he couldn't fight to try and get them if he did so and he totally agreed). And if he needed something I would ask that he provide before I had to go to assistance (again he agreed to that). So he wouldn't have gotten off Scott free.